Hi all!
Firstly, I'd like to say that I love Gnu/Linux and please don't take me wrong. What I'm saying here is based on what I see after using Gnu/Linux for the last 4 years.
About the suspend to ram/disk I understand because it may be very difficult to have it working on all type of hardware. But as it was already pointed out on Ubuntu Brainstorm and I think they are already working on it.
But now, at least to me, the biggest complain I have is the performance of screen responsiveness of gnu/linux desktop. I don't know if this is the correct term, but what I mean is the speed the text is draw in the screen, the speed the windows are rendered and so on. In summary, the perception I have of how fast the screen is drawing its contents.
My experience is based on my old notebook. A Pentium4m with an intel 855gm with shared video memory.
I'm using Ubuntu 8.04 with Gnome.
When I open firefox on my gmail page, for example, the scroll is not so good. The scroll is too slow. On the same hardware, when I boot on windows with firefox the scroll is not perfect but it is much better. I can't even talk about processor usage of firefox. I don't know why this happens. But after so much time using Gnome when I boot up again on windows so a friend of mine who only used windows could work on it, I saw that windowing and screen performance was very very different. I just don't know why it is this way. Another point: Just to change from one tab to another on firefox on my system could make me wait for something like 0.5 seconds. Again, I'd like to say that on windows on the same machine, firefox didn't take so much time like this.
So, I don't know if the problem is in firefox itself. Or somewhere else. I noticed that if I use XFCE I get a better performance on screen rendering but not so much. So, maybe it is Gnome the problem? I noticed that Konqueror on KDE seemed to give me a better screen responsiveness compared to gnome and xfce. Maybe it is a GTK problem? I also thought it could be a problem of X11 but I don't know very well about it to say if it has so much to contribute to this problem or not.
This is what I got with firefox only. If I talk about MPlayer and video performance for example, we have a similar history. On windows, the performance of mplayer is much better. Even when Ubuntu is using XV output driver.
So, please, if someone can explain me this difference and maybe some why's about it. I don't know if I'm saying non sense things and please, correct me if I am. But I really really whish those screen related performance problems were excluded from my gnu/linux experience.
Just another comparison... Before I bought my macbook, I used Ubuntu 8.04 on a sony vaio with a nvidia card 8400GT with 256MB of dedicated video memory and while the screen responsiveness was much much better, of course, I still could see some lags while scrolling the gmail page and while chaging from one tab to other. I had vista installed on it and firefox didn't showed this problem while I was using ff with vista. I don't know if this is a good comparison as I didn't take any numbers of it, but it gives me some practical results about what I feel when using windows, os x and gnu/linux. And as a big fan and advocate of gnu/linux, I repeat, I really really wish those problems to be solved.
Thank you in advance for you time. Please, send your comments.
Firstly, I'd like to say that I love Gnu/Linux and please don't take me wrong. What I'm saying here is based on what I see after using Gnu/Linux for the last 4 years.
About the suspend to ram/disk I understand because it may be very difficult to have it working on all type of hardware. But as it was already pointed out on Ubuntu Brainstorm and I think they are already working on it.
But now, at least to me, the biggest complain I have is the performance of screen responsiveness of gnu/linux desktop. I don't know if this is the correct term, but what I mean is the speed the text is draw in the screen, the speed the windows are rendered and so on. In summary, the perception I have of how fast the screen is drawing its contents.
My experience is based on my old notebook. A Pentium4m with an intel 855gm with shared video memory.
I'm using Ubuntu 8.04 with Gnome.
When I open firefox on my gmail page, for example, the scroll is not so good. The scroll is too slow. On the same hardware, when I boot on windows with firefox the scroll is not perfect but it is much better. I can't even talk about processor usage of firefox. I don't know why this happens. But after so much time using Gnome when I boot up again on windows so a friend of mine who only used windows could work on it, I saw that windowing and screen performance was very very different. I just don't know why it is this way. Another point: Just to change from one tab to another on firefox on my system could make me wait for something like 0.5 seconds. Again, I'd like to say that on windows on the same machine, firefox didn't take so much time like this.
So, I don't know if the problem is in firefox itself. Or somewhere else. I noticed that if I use XFCE I get a better performance on screen rendering but not so much. So, maybe it is Gnome the problem? I noticed that Konqueror on KDE seemed to give me a better screen responsiveness compared to gnome and xfce. Maybe it is a GTK problem? I also thought it could be a problem of X11 but I don't know very well about it to say if it has so much to contribute to this problem or not.
This is what I got with firefox only. If I talk about MPlayer and video performance for example, we have a similar history. On windows, the performance of mplayer is much better. Even when Ubuntu is using XV output driver.
So, please, if someone can explain me this difference and maybe some why's about it. I don't know if I'm saying non sense things and please, correct me if I am. But I really really whish those screen related performance problems were excluded from my gnu/linux experience.
Just another comparison... Before I bought my macbook, I used Ubuntu 8.04 on a sony vaio with a nvidia card 8400GT with 256MB of dedicated video memory and while the screen responsiveness was much much better, of course, I still could see some lags while scrolling the gmail page and while chaging from one tab to other. I had vista installed on it and firefox didn't showed this problem while I was using ff with vista. I don't know if this is a good comparison as I didn't take any numbers of it, but it gives me some practical results about what I feel when using windows, os x and gnu/linux. And as a big fan and advocate of gnu/linux, I repeat, I really really wish those problems to be solved.
Thank you in advance for you time. Please, send your comments.
Comments
About the slow text, thats pango's fault, gtk is a slow toolkit. Just try a mono(or other intensive) build on gnome-terminal and xterm term, you'll see the difference.
Another example would be enabling the option to show the window contents while resizing and do this on a GTK application. You'll most likely see the controls jumping from one place to another, with no resemblance to the normal appearance.
Yet, I've complained about this before and everyone was telling me "this is not possible, Linux is faster/better/cooler/etc. than Windows".
On my PC (highend), screen draw will be so-so if I use the (GPL) "nv" driver for my graphics card. CPU usage will be in 10-20% with only a window sitting there - nothing done.
Once I switch to "nvidia" driver (binary-only), all problems are gone: my CPU usage is <5% running a full KDE desktop (with opera, thunderbird, amarokk and a lot of konsoles running) and (yippeeeeh) running compiz-fusion in full frills mode :)
Can't complain there. So the only 'downside' to it is that you'd have to use binary-only nvidia or ATI fglrx on some graphics cards. To me, that is fair (after all, 80% of competing OS's is 90% binary only) and I retain the freedom of choice!
For reference: kubuntu hardy LTS 8.04, lot's of funky repo's and running under a Xen kernel.
Suspend not working is a pain indeed.
It is known that certain points in Linux Graphical Architectue have less performance than in other architectures (I think the guilty is the networked protocol... as soon as Xorg splits out its networked protocol XWindows will go quick) but the difference can't be seen without timing something, it excapes to an eye.
Using nvidia closed driver and running intrepid.
If I run 8.04 in a virtual machine on XP, everything is as fast as it should be.
@ivan: I had smooth scrolling disabled. If enabled, things get worse. :(
@grayshade: That's what I see. I hope this problem can fixed soon.
@amber: I was using nvidia proprietary driver. But even there, the performance wasn't so good. I know that with compiz, a lot of window drawing gets much better, but text rendering and scroll still have problems. What do you get if you change from one tab to another on firefox? Do you get any delay?
@Pedro Martínez Juliá: Hi Pedro! How you doing? So much time since last time we talked. Yeah, I also think one possible problem could be the network protocol. I hope they remove this code so we can see if the performance improves.
@davh: Yeah. That's what I see too.
@j: I agree with you. Another thing you can try is to install virtualbox and windows inside it. You will see that video performance on virtualbox is not so bad, even compared to the performance of host! Check it out.
Thanks all for your feedback.
If the point is valid, it really shouldn't matter if someone loves Linux or not. Are people becoming afraid of rabid Linux fanboys and their idiotic comments whenever some issue with Linux is raised?
The main key was dri. Do glxinfo | grep dri and start from there. Also, don't use the i810 driver, use i915 iirc was the best. Lastly check this and enable any modules/configs you don't have already:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Direct_rendering_on_Intel_Extreme_Graphics_(855GM)_chipsets
I'm not user it was i810 or i830 the default driver Xorg used, but I remember clearly that i915 was the way to go, I also know I used to build my own kernels with dri and i915 only although not necessary it improved performance a bit and with suspend2 it enabled me to unload the video drivers to suspend the laptop.
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